Desert tortoise calls in snipers over cows invading

[jontheturboguy]

Maybe he's the last man standing because his business model is flawed? Grazing cattle, in a desert, on land you do not own, doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.

We can argue about who owns the land. The bottom line is Mr. Bundy doesn't. The state of Nevada is my best guess as to who owns it and they have ceded their rights to it to the Feds.

Yes, free speech zones, commandeering private roads for Federal use, beating and tasing protesters are all heinous violations of their rights. Mr. Bundy brought this sh!tstorm down when he decided that he had a right to use property that does not belong to him and then threatened war with those who would stop him.

I agree with Mr. Bundy and many here that this should not be a federal .gov issue. I also think the 16th Amendment as interpreted to call wages "income" is wrong, I believe that rules on automatic weapons, suppressors, and SBRs are bullsh!t. But I pay my taxes just the same. I wait 9 months and pay for the stamp before obtaining a SBR. Guess that makes me a "sheeple" or something.

Blah blah blah. You'd be singing a different tune if the feds came to squash your family way of life that has been that way since 1880.
Dollars to dog nuts you'd scream the moment fed boots hit your door.
Oh wait, will you still be a proud sheep and wear that star on your arm?

 

[rambone]

The Feds have a stranglehold on almost all the land in the west. The most dominated state in the union is Nevada.

 

[88GT]

Maybe he's the last man standing because his business model is flawed? Grazing cattle, in a desert, on land you do not own, doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.

So all my tenants are illegally squatting on my property?

Also, it's not a little bit illogical to say that the one man who has succeeded in business while others have quit has a flawed business model.

We can argue about who owns the land. The bottom line is Mr. Bundy doesn't. The state of Nevada is my best guess as to who owns it and they have ceded their rights to it to the Feds.

We should argue about who owns it because if the feds came in a took control of my rentals and tried to kick my tenants out, wouldn't that be wrong?

It's already been established in this thread that Nevada owns it. The question is how the government claims control of it.

Yes, free speech zones, commandeering private roads for Federal use, beating and tasing protesters are all heinous violations of their rights. Mr. Bundy brought this sh!tstorm down when he decided that he had a right to use property that does not belong to him and then threatened war with those who would stop him.

Ownership doesn't preclude a right to use the land.

I agree with Mr. Bundy and many here that this should not be a federal .gov issue. I also think the 16th Amendment as interpreted to call wages "income" is wrong, I believe that rules on automatic weapons, suppressors, and SBRs are bullsh!t. But I pay my taxes just the same. I wait 9 months and pay for the stamp before obtaining a SBR. Guess that makes me a "sheeple" or something.

Then you need to be taking Mr. Bundy's side because as I understand it, this is a simple case of the feds claiming power and authority not granted to them.

 

[ghuns]

Also, it's not a little bit illogical to say that the one man who has succeeded in business while others have quit has a flawed business model.

Not paying a million in grazing fees probably went a long way towards his success.

It's already been established in this thread that Nevada owns it. The question is how the government claims control of it.

Rambone's map says the Feds own it. Whether they own it or Nevada owns it, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 is how the Feds claim control of it.

Ownership doesn't preclude a right to use the land.

I'll use that line when I backup my livestock trailer to the gate at Brown County State park and turn my herd of steer, yeah, just the one, and a dozen pigs loose. I'm sure the DNR will welcome us in.

Then you need to be taking Mr. Bundy's side because as I understand it, this is a simple case of the feds claiming power and authority not granted to them.

If Mr. Bundy and his family had been consistent in their belief that the Feds had no power or authority over the land, then fine. But they payed the Feds for decades, acknowledging that authority. When they used that authority to reduce his allotment, he cried "unconstitutional federal authority!".

I just can't get past the freeloader aspect of his situation. Land and the fruits of it are valuable commodities. To make use of land that you do not own, without the owners permission, is theft. Perhaps this belief is skewed by living in an area where every acre is privately owned. Maybe if I grew up where public land was more common than private, I would not feel this way.

 

[87iroc]

IBTL...

Beh, typed a bunch of stuff, I'll just let you guys go back to yelling at each other. Those that call the man a freeloader though should look at what is accepted in western society. Was it freeloading 150 yrs ago when grazing rights were agreed to? Things are different out west....look at western history, not central indiana history for the full story.

 

[JettaKnight]

dont we already have 45 murders in indy in 2014?...and the feds are doing this...?

Even better. We have unsecured borders that Obama and Holder have told states repeatedly not to enforce FEDERAL law, but you know some cows and rancher's livelihood have to be contained immediately.

You right. Shut it down, shut it all down. Stop enforcing all laws, persecuting all criminals, investigating all crimes until the issues that ArmedIndy and Jon are dealt with.

Wait, then we get people complaining that the Feds are enacting a gestapo state while looking for 45 murders - a la Boston Marathon Bombers.

 

[armedindy]

You right. Shut it down, shut it all down. Stop enforcing all laws, persecuting all criminals, investigating all crimes until the issues that ArmedIndy and Jon are dealt with.

Wait, then we get people complaining that the Feds are enacting a gestapo state while looking for 45 murders - a la Boston Marathon Bombers.

id rather they be prosecuting criminals, though i dont really care if they persecute them as well

 

[smokingman]

Bundy family reporting cell towers shut down.
Bundy Ranch: Cell Towers Shut Down According To Bundy Family - Gov't Endgame Massacre Near? | Terrorism

 

[88GT]

Not paying a million in grazing fees probably went a long way towards his success.

I'm sure that's a part of it. But not cowering to the feds when they usurp power they have no legal claim to probably had some to do with it as well.

Rambone's map says the Feds own it. Whether they own it or Nevada owns it, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 is how the Feds claim control of it.

It matters who owns it. Slavery was legal too. Are you really going to argue the justification of a law simply because it exists?

I'll use that line when I backup my livestock trailer to the gate at Brown County State park and turn my herd of steer, yeah, just the one, and a dozen pigs loose. I'm sure the DNR will welcome us in.

Did you have permission?

If Mr. Bundy and his family had been consistent in their belief that the Feds had no power or authority over the land, then fine. But they payed the Feds for decades, acknowledging that authority. When they used that authority to reduce his allotment, he cried "unconstitutional federal authority!".

So it's about right or wrong, it's about consistency in beliefs.

I just can't get past the freeloader aspect of his situation. Land and the fruits of it are valuable commodities. To make use of land that you do not own, without the owners permission, is theft. Perhaps this belief is skewed by living in an area where every acre is privately owned. Maybe if I grew up where public land was more common than private, I would not feel this way.

Does the guy pay taxes? Then he isn't free loading.

 

[rambone]

This is similar to the homeless guy who had the audacity to camp in the foothills of Albuquerque. He was supposedly trespassing... on public property. Wait, what..?

Public property doesn't seem very public to me. The public is not free to use it... not since the era of big government. It appears that this land is ACTUALLY private property. Our taxes go to subsidize a bunch of abusive security guards to make sure the public doesn't actually use it.

 

[ghuns]

Public property doesn't seem very public to me. The public is not free to use it... not since the era of big government. It appears that this land is ACTUALLY private property. Our taxes go to subsidize a bunch of abusive security guards to make sure the public doesn't actually use it.

When I see the country or state mowing roadsides, I have always thought, damn, what a waste. I think this year I'll fire up my mower and bailer and make hay down the median and shoulders of US 31 from South Bend to Indy. You know how many thousands of bales I'll get from that? It's public land, right? I pay taxes, so I won't be a freeloader. I can count on INGO to have my back when the JBTs show up to make me stop, right?

 

[rambone]

When I see the country or state mowing roadsides, I have always thought, damn, what a waste. I think this year I'll fire up my mower and bailer and make hay down the median and shoulders of US 31 from South Bend to Indy. You know how many thousands of bales I'll get from that? It's public land, right? I pay taxes, so I won't be a freeloader. I can count on INGO to have my back when the JBTs show up to make me stop, right?

"Man arrested for collecting grass off highway median."

You can count on me!

 

[jontheturboguy]

When I see the country or state mowing roadsides, I have always thought, damn, what a waste. I think this year I'll fire up my mower and bailer and make hay down the median and shoulders of US 31 from South Bend to Indy. You know how many thousands of bales I'll get from that? It's public land, right? I pay taxes, so I won't be a freeloader. I can count on INGO to have my back when the JBTs show up to make me stop, right?

Your iq just went down with this mindless dribble.

As ive said before, this is a man's livelihood and his family's way of life for generations.

Just because the federal government does it, doesn't make stealing right.

The BLM are thieves. END OF STORY. WHICH SIDE WILL YOU BE ON WHEN SHTF????

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Just because the federal government does it, doesn't make stealing right.

I think we can all agree that the only time it's cool for our government to steal is when we get a piece of the action.

 

[hornadylnl]

Let's say there's only a billion guns in the US with no more ever to be made. I single handedly go out and buy up 350,000,000 of them. Do you think that'd have an affect on market price and how many do you think it would push out of the market?

 

[Tombs]

Abso-freaking-lutely!!! It seems some here have stepped up in support of this relentless, uncontrollable, federal government trying to destroy a man's lively hood. I'll admit, when I first heard he hasn't been paying the permit fees (or whatever) to use this land my first reaction was against Bundy. However, after hearing from the family and other stories around the interwebz, it seems pretty damn cut and dry that this is yet again another story of government out of control...just out to hurt the little guy to prove their point...that no one can stand up to any fed agency ever, and if you try you will be squashed.

Assuming the Bundy's story is true (and I'm certainly more apt to believe them at this point) Where are some of your guys' loyalties? With freedom? or government abuse?

Their loyalty is to the laws that do not abide by the constitution.

This is why I have learned to take the opinions of some "respected" people here with a grain of salt. There's no sense debating someone when they don't realize their entire basis for the argument is based on invalid laws.

 

[-Jake-]

They sent way more force to run off an 80 something year old rancher and his cows than to run off terrorists killing Americans in Benghazi. Amazing.

 

[dieselrealtor]

They sent way more force to run off an 80 something year old rancher and his cows than to run off terrorists killing Americans in Benghazi. Amazing.

Isn't this the typical behavior of a bully, spouse abuser, child abuser, etc?

 

[ClydeB]

Over on infowars.com they talk about the motivators behind getting that man's cattle off the land.
» Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Here is a quote from the webpage.

Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch
BLM attempted cover-up of Sen. Reid/Chinese gov’t takeover of ranch for solar farm

Kit Daniels
Infowars.com
April 11, 2014

The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.

Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.

Whole lot more information, documents, and videos on infowars.
» Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[Bunnykid68]

Bundy claims to have gotten the rights to have his cattle graze the land (which has been in his family for centuries) and has paid the requisite dues to Clark County, NV, but BLM has decided they control the land and therefore Bundy needs to pay up at the federal level.

If this is true, he has been paying the county for years and then the Feds decided they needed a piece of the action