Disarmed - -1 for LEO

[drillsgt]

Children at play. Argue about anything and everything. In the end it got him three of four tickets. Pretty dumb IMO.

If I get stopped for a violation and the officer (for whatever reason) wants my gun, I will hand it over. I also will not be involved in name calling, insults and the badgering of the officers involved. In the end if I felt things where done wrong, take it up with the agency later.

And cue the scene from Liar Liar where he says in the end he'll just have to bend over and take it. Agencies not going to do anything for you.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And cue the scene from Liar Liar where he says in the end he'll just have to bend over and take it. Agencies not going to do anything for you.

If you say nothing, you'd be right.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Wow? Why do you think it takes luck or a cowboy to decline such a foolish request?

If an officer really wants to take my gun, he's going to have to actually take it without my consent. I can't imagine a scenario where I would even consider unholstering or otherwise retrieving it myself and handing it over on demand.

Good luck is what you'll need when you comply with such a foolish request and some other officer reacts to your furtive movements with less than a complete understanding that you were just following orders.

Another attempt for you to Fabricate a tale for your own agenda.
As far as luck goes, I will stick with wisdom and you roll the dice with your luck.

I know what my rights are and will stand up for mine and yours but I have enough wisdom to know what fight I can win and that loosing a battle doesn't mean you lost the war.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A person having a permit indicates on some level the kind of person you are dealing with. one that has kept his nose clean and has no serious criminal history. That in itself should create some latitude IMO.

I used to think the same thing.

The first person I thought I was probably going to have to shoot on duty was a LTCH permit holder who was called in for firing shots into an interstate embankment during rush hour. Since then I've arrested, or seen them arrested, for everything up to and including murder. LTCH means the odds are a bit stronger you're ok, but is certainly not enough to indicate what kind of person you're dealing with IMO.

 

[ATM]

Given that no officer I know would allow a person to disarm themselves, the way you framed your response, it appeared that you were saying that you would physically resist an officer's attempt to disarm you.

Though you may not know them, some officers have actually asked people to hand over their gun. It boggles the mind.
Non-compliance to such a request or order could only be characterized as the sane thing to do.

I've never heard anyone here suggest resisting a known officer's attempt to physically disarm them, though adamantly denying consent would certainly be appropriate.

Another attempt for you to Fabricate a tale for your own agenda.

I don't need to fabricate and I have no agenda. I just say what I mean. Here's what you replied to again - specifically the part you bolded:

I don't go out looking for "battles" against anybody, but I can say with 100% confidence that if I was in the same situation as these guys, I would not hand over my gun.

All I have for you is just Wow. Good luck cowboy

As far as luck goes, I will stick with wisdom and you roll the dice with your luck.

You can sure hope that all officers who may be present are aware that you are merely complying with one of their own's absurd request when they see you retrieving it, but I wouldn't call that wisdom.

I know what my rights are and will stand up for mine and yours but I have enough wisdom to know what fight I can win and that loosing a battle doesn't mean you lost the war.

So, you'll stand up for our rights only when you know you can win if it turns into a fight? What about all those times that standing up for our rights wouldn't have turned into a fight or battle? Or the times you could have won, but just weren't confident so you forfeit anyway?

Those add up over time and you're left without much of a stake in the war at all. Be brave! Liberty requires it.

 

[JRPLANE]

The whole for your safety and mine is no more than an intimidation tactic. The first officer already had the driver license, if he would have walked back to his car and done his thing, he would not have been in any danger. Its nothing more than WE the police should be armed and the public should not.
And why, if your not up to questionable tactics, wouldn't your state I'm officer Smith this is my badge number. If your doing the right thing it could do nothing but help you.

I would like to see at every stop the officer be require to greet the person, with name and badge number and the reason for being stopped. Not the standard give me your papers. Stop acting like bullies. Being polite and friendly would make the whole force seen in a better light. Most people know they were caught speeding or rolling thru a stop, They don't want to be treated like a mass murderers.

I believe in the past few years it has become an US VS THEM mentality. Much more from the police point of view.

I'm done!

 

[Kutnupe14]

The whole for your safety and mine is no more than an intimidation tactic. The first officer already had the driver license, if he would have walked back to his car and done his thing, he would not have been in any danger. Its nothing more than WE the police should be armed and the public should not.
And why, if your not up to questionable tactics, wouldn't your state I'm officer Smith this is my badge number. If your doing the right thing it could do nothing but help you.

I would like to see at every stop the officer be require to greet the person, with name and badge number and the reason for being stopped. Not the standard give me your papers. Stop acting like bullies. Being polite and friendly would make the whole force seen in a better light. Most people know they were caught speeding or rolling thru a stop, They don't want to be treated like a mass murderers.

I believe in the past few years it has become an US VS THEM mentality. Much more from the police point of view.

I'm done!

"Hi, my name is Officer Clueless. My badge number 5671, and I stopped you because a person matching your description and in this particular model of vehicle was seen shoplifting at Walmart." "Can I please have your DL and registration?" "Oh, and would you like a back rub and a cup of coffee?"

 

[AA&E]

If it's discovered that you're lying, you'll certainly be detained well longer than if you don't. But as far as legal repercussions, none.

Appreciate the information.

 

[AA&E]

Wow? Why do you think it takes luck or a cowboy to decline such a foolish request?

If an officer really wants to take my gun, he's going to have to actually take it without my consent. I can't imagine a scenario where I would even consider unholstering or otherwise retrieving it myself and handing it over on demand.

Good luck is what you'll need when you comply with such a foolish request and some other officer reacts to your furtive movements with less than a complete understanding that you were just following orders.

That strikes me as a completely possible scenario. I saw a video where an officer asks a man for his license. He turns to retrieve it from his vehicle and gets shot repeatedly in the back. He as complying with orders as well.

 

[AA&E]

Given that no officer I know would allow a person to disarm themselves, the way you framed your response, it appeared that you were saying that you would physically resist an officer's attempt to disarm you.

And if a person were eager to comply and upon first mention of handing over the weapon they just grab it in effort to hand it over? Bang.

I don't see this being as far a stretch as you make it out to be.

Did you see the video where the officer asks the man for his drivers license (he had just gotten out of his truck when approached)? He turned to retrieve it from his vehicle and was shot repeatedly in the back... for complying with the officers request.

 

[AA&E]

Another attempt for you to Fabricate a tale for your own agenda.
As far as luck goes, I will stick with wisdom and you roll the dice with your luck.

I know what my rights are and will stand up for mine and yours but I have enough wisdom to know what fight I can win and that loosing a battle doesn't mean you lost the war.

See my response to his message.. I have typed the story several times in this thread. Such scenarios DO occur. Even if rare, it would suck to be the one in a million that gets gunned down for complying.

 

[AA&E]

I used to think the same thing.

The first person I thought I was probably going to have to shoot on duty was a LTCH permit holder who was called in for firing shots into an interstate embankment during rush hour. Since then I've arrested, or seen them arrested, for everything up to and including murder. LTCH means the odds are a bit stronger you're ok, but is certainly not enough to indicate what kind of person you're dealing with IMO.

Valid points. The first guy was a tool. Who does such a thing?

Off subject.. of those arrested for murder. Were any of them possibly self defense scenarios where they were arrested anyway? Or just cut and dry homicide?

I see articles in less politically minded states where people that should have be given the benefit of the doubt..... aren't.

 

[AA&E]

"Hi, my name is Officer Clueless. My badge number 5671, and I stopped you because a person matching your description and in this particular model of vehicle was seen shoplifting at Walmart." "Can I please have your DL and registration?" "Oh, and would you like a back rub and a cup of coffee?"

A foot massage and a beer... is that out of the question?

 

[Bapak2ja]

I watched until the driver told the cop, "I am not giving you my gun" (or words to that effect), You just lit the fire, dude. That cop is going to prove to you that you WILL do what he tells you. From that point on the "rulers" were out and citizen will lose. I could not watch beyond those words.

Simple statement expressing compliance but alerting him to the fact he is being filmed and that you are complying under protest at the violation of his rights is sufficient. From that point on, just take it and keep quiet. You can see him again in court if you choose.

 

[HoughMade]

I used to think the same thing.

The first person I thought I was probably going to have to shoot on duty was a LTCH permit holder who was called in for firing shots into an interstate embankment during rush hour. Since then I've arrested, or seen them arrested, for everything up to and including murder. LTCH means the odds are a bit stronger you're ok, but is certainly not enough to indicate what kind of person you're dealing with IMO.

Everyone, LTCH holder or not, is a law abiding, non-criminal...right up to the moment they're not. The LTCH addresses the past, not the present or future.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how taking the gun makes the officer more safe.

Maybe a law of physics or something that explains that a person can not have more guns, or something along those lines.

I mean, what happens when you pull over an INGOer on the way to a Meet & Shoot.
Sit there and wait 20 minutes for all the guns to get moved to the officer's car?
Then, at the conclusion of the stop, find out there were still 3 guns in the car?

 

[Gluemanz28]

Though you may not know them, some officers have actually asked people to hand over their gun. It boggles the mind.
Non-compliance to such a request or order could only be characterized as the sane thing to do.

I've never heard anyone here suggest resisting a known officer's attempt to physically disarm them, though adamantly denying consent would certainly be appropriate.




I don't need to fabricate and I have no agenda. I just say what I mean. Here's what you replied to again - specifically the part you bolded:






You can sure hope that all officers who may be present are aware that you are merely complying with one of their own's absurd request when they see you retrieving it, but I wouldn't call that wisdom.



So, you'll stand up for our rights only when you know you can win if it turns into a fight? What about all those times that standing up for our rights wouldn't have turned into a fight or battle? Or the times you could have won, but just weren't confident so you forfeit anyway?

Those add up over time and you're left without much of a stake in the war at all. Be brave! Liberty requires it.

Taking only what you want from my post and turning the words around to fit your agenda is typical from you. The sad thing is that you probably have a lot to offer but your approach leaves nothing positive.

Now I know you have to have the last word in so carry on with your agenda.

 

[Trigger Time]

Whatever. I don't believe you people who say your gonna compl with unlawful orders or answer these bs questions and then later I the thread you say you'll fight for freedom if it ever comes to it. I call bull ****. You probably did nothing in the 80's and 90's when they shoved the assault weapons ban up our asses. Where were you big talkers then? Just go ahead and keep bending over because that's what I'm sure you'll always do

 

[Trigger Time]

I'll go ahead and predict you classic responses.
You don't know me or what I will or won't do. I love my country bla bla bla

 

[Woobie]

Whatever. I don't believe you people who say your gonna compl with unlawful orders or answer these bs questions and then later I the thread you say you'll fight for freedom if it ever comes to it. I call bull ****. You probably did nothing in the 80's and 90's when they shoved the assault weapons ban up our asses. Where were you big talkers then? Just go ahead and keep bending over because that's what I'm sure you'll always do

First of all, there is a legal mechanism to beat these cops. It's called a lawsuit. Violence in this situation is not only foolhardy, it's excessive.

Second, Sun Tzu says to not engage in a fight you can't win. If you want to try your odds in this circumstance, it's your funeral, hero.