Israel About to Be Taught a Lesson

[public servant]

Israel has not received UN permission to engage in war or a deprivation of human rights against Gaza.

Eff the UN.

 

[christman]

Naval blockades are an act of war and a violation of human rights. Israel has not received UN permission to engage in war or a deprivation of human rights against Gaza.

A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.

 

[techres]

Israeli pirates in international waters have no valid legal authority - period.

Yeah, like when they captured the Karan A before it's contents could get to Gaza:

December 2001 – The Karin A vessel, loaded with weapons in Iran, bound for the Gaza Strip, sailed in the direction of Egypt with the intention of unloading its cargo in Egypt. Small fishing boats were meant to pick up the cargo and deliver it to the Gaza Strip. The ship, loaded with rockets, anti-tank rockets, and light arms, was seized on January 3rd, 2002 by Israeli Naval Commandos.

Link Here

Guess they should have just let that go?

Look, it is easy to support food to starving children. It is almost as easy to support non-violent protest. It gets hard to support "protesters" violent attack on soldiers, even those attempting to take a ship. When you do that, you become a combatant. And then you get treated as such.

This deal was going to happen and was going to be ugly no matter how it happened. The "protesters" on that ship want to both be innocent and to kill soldiers and they cannot have both. That hazy line where you can sling cobblestones and still call yourself non-violent is garbage.

They want to be protesters, they can act like it.

They want to be blockade runners, they can take their thumps.

Again, this was gentle. All they have done is gaurantee that the next time is hard.

And, seriously, international condemnation? Oh, boy, that has stopped Israel before. Oh, wait, nope.

Israel will do what they feel they need to do to be safe. And if our guardsmen were attacked on the mexican border, some kidnapped, and we had an embargo on mexico - do you really think we would be deterred in stopping a ship that might contain arms? Really?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Where does Israel get the authority to violate international law and board ships in international waters?

Israel is not violating international law. Via international law they can board ships.

Any vessel that has the intent to violate the blockade may be stopped or attacked (in international waters or not).

If rockets were being fired into Arizona or Texas with the Chinese rockets from Mexico, would you not think the USA would blockade Mexican ports?

 

[smoking357]

Yeah, like when they captured the Karan A before it's contents could get to Gaza:

Israel has arms it uses on the Palestinians. Where does Israel get to tell Palestine that it cannot arm itself against the Israelis?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Where does Israel get to tell Palestine that it cannot arm itself against the Israelis?

Several sources, including the Oslo Accords/DOP.

 

[techres]

Israel has arms it uses on the Palestinians. Where does Israel get to tell Palestine that it cannot arm itself against the Israelis?

When they use them to lob rounds in on Israeli civilians. That's really about where it ends. Go figure.

 

[PatriotPride]

Israel has arms it uses on the Palestinians. Where does Israel get to tell Palestine that it cannot arm itself against the Israelis?

By the same authority that we tell terrorists that if you decide to fly planes into our buildings, we will find you, and we will kill you. The issue is not arms, but how they are USED.

 

[patton487]

Yeah, like when they captured the Karan A before it's contents could get to Gaza:

Link Here

Guess they should have just let that go?

Look, it is easy to support food to starving children. It is almost as easy to support non-violent protest. It gets hard to support "protesters" violent attack on soldiers, even those attempting to take a ship. When you do that, you become a combatant. And then you get treated as such.

This deal was going to happen and was going to be ugly no matter how it happened. The "protesters" on that ship want to both be innocent and to kill soldiers and they cannot have both. That hazy line where you can sling cobblestones and still call yourself non-violent is garbage.

They want to be protesters, they can act like it.

They want to be blockade runners, they can take their thumps.

Again, this was gentle. All they have done is gaurantee that the next time is hard.

And, seriously, international condemnation? Oh, boy, that has stopped Israel before. Oh, wait, nope.

Israel will do what they feel they need to do to be safe. And if our guardsmen were attacked on the mexican border, some kidnapped, and we had an embargo on mexico - do you really think we would be deterred in stopping a ship that might contain arms? Really?

repped !! An to OP, obviously your a hater of Jews and Israel.

 

[smoking357]

Several sources, including the Oslo Accords/DOP.

Now show me Israel's UN justification for the blockade and the massacre.

Israel uses the UN when it suits them and ignores it when it doesn't.

 

[chraland51]

I am sure that we have not heard nearly any of the true facts. For Israel to do such a thing, they must have had intelligence that something more was intended than just foreign aid to the Palestinians. How many times in the past have you heard of any islamic country providing such purely humanitarian aid to other islamic countries? Not very many, if ever. This action was intended to provoke Israel into doing something that could be made to look bad on their part. If these people on the ships were so peaceful, why did they just not let the commandos board the ships, look around and find nothing and then enter the port peacefully??? With the way that things are happening these days, I am very suspicious at anything that any moslem does.

I would not want to be in a part of the world where is was surrounded by countries who would give anything to see me destroyed although I am starting to feel that my way of life will soon be on the endangered species list if the present administration and it band of merry idiots has its way. Just my two cents.

 

[techres]

Israel uses the UN when it suits them and ignores it when it doesn't.

Just like the US, just like the Arab League, just like... well.... everyone.

I am not trying to say that Israel walks on water and has a special moral authority that makes them unquestionable.

I am saying that their actions are not outside of what we would do given similar threats and situations.

I am also saying that the protesters also do not gain any moral authority to their cause when they act with violence against troops attempting restraint.

And, seriously, be careful with words like massacre. 10 dead is not a massacre. It does a disservice to actual massacres when you misuse the word. And, in a way that might ring true from your position, the word massacre is used properly with Baruch Goldstein's attack on the temple mount. When you use that word here, you weaken the real meaning of the word.

This was an takeover, met with force and violence that resulted in force protection and 10 people ended up dead. You can argue where that dance should have ended, but do not pretend like there is only one actor on the floor.

 

[88GT]

Israel is not violating international law. Via international law they can board ships.

Any vessel that has the intent to violate the blockade may be stopped or attacked (in international waters or not).

If rockets were being fired into Arizona or Texas with the Chinese rockets from Mexico, would you not think the USA would blockade Mexican ports?

All this talk of international law cracks me up. The only power behind international law is the participating countries' willingness to abide by it and willingness and ability to back it up when others violate it. IOW:

Otherwise, it's worth less than the paper on which it is written.

Besides, I reject the idea that any sovereign nation needs to subjugate its sovereignty for the sake of a larger group of people and/or nations with whom it may not share a compatible world view, particularly if that world view takes a malevolent direction relative to said sovereign nation's long-term prospects.

 

[thej27]

Obviously the OP believes everything that comes out of pallywood. Watch this vid and try opening your eyes.
<embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-2949587287644303331&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>

pallywood

 

[smoking357]

I am also saying that the protesters also do not gain any moral authority to their cause when they act with violence against troops attempting restraint.

Is this from the same crowd that talks about the Castle Doctrine, where a citizen is allowed to defend his house from armed invaders?

Come on. The Israelis went onto a foreign ship, uninvited. Let a guy invade your house, and they'll carry him out.

And, seriously, be careful with words like massacre. 10 dead is not a massacre. It does a disservice to actual massacres when you misuse the word. And, in a way that might ring true from your position, the word massacre is used properly with Baruch Goldstein's attack on the temple mount. When you use that word here, you weaken the real meaning of the word.

What?!? Five people were killed in the Boston Massacre, and we teach that event to all our schoolchildren. I don't want to see humanity's standards be lowered.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

All this talk of international law cracks me up. The only power behind international law is the participating countries' willingness to abide by it and willingness and ability to back it up when others violate it.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying what international law states as the OP seemed to be unclear of Israel's statutory basis for enforcing its blockade.

As I learned years ago, international maritime law=whatever the USA and the UK say it is.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Come on. The Israelis went onto a foreign ship, uninvited. Let a guy invade your house, and they'll carry him out.

You have the parties reversed. The Israelis went into a foreign ship that was attempting to run a blockade. The aggressors were the Turks.

Under the law the Israelis were allowed not only to go onto the ship, but capture it or sink it. The fact that the Israelis used such restraint is amazing to me.

 

[dross]

Gaza was fairly captured during a war, and was part of Israeli territory. It was given to the "Palestinians" as part of an agreement, the terms of which were violated by the so-called Palestinians immediately.

The seas have always been an extenstion of the the battlefield. If the seas are being used to supply an enemy, it's ridiculous to argue they are some kind of refuge.

 

[smoking357]

You have the parties reversed. The Israelis went into a foreign ship that was attempting to run a blockade. The aggressors were the Turks.

Under the law the Israelis were allowed not only to go onto the ship, but capture it or sink it. The fact that the Israelis used such restraint is amazing to me.

Israel has no right to a blockade of Palestinian waters or of international waters.

Israel cannot be more wrong in this incident. We are hurting this country by having a few here who defend them, since the whole world roundly condemns Israel.

I see the support for Israel coming primarily from Jews and neocons. Both are minority components of the country, and neoconservatism has been losing ground since 2006. This may be the death of it, thankfully.

 

[smoking357]

Gaza was fairly captured during a war.

Then lemme axe ya', if it was fairly captured during a war, why is it now improper for people to engage in war to get it back?