Let us influence 10MM hunting in Indiana

[IronHorseman]

Here are my comments on the subject posted at Glock Talk. Glock Talk - View Single Post - 10mm Hunting in Indiana!!!

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Pretty interesting stuff. I too have been peeved about not being able to use my 30-30 on white tail when I can keep 'em in the 9 ring at 125 yds pretty easily, and know darn good and well it has enough knockdown power. Whilst perusing the levergun offerings at GB, I did begin wondering why so many other calibers that would be super on whitetail are not allowed in our little state, and why larger handgun cartridges like the 10 are illegal. I'm not dense enough to get that one doesn't want to take the Lorcin .380 to the treestand, or let city boys out into God's country with 30-06s. But, that said, there are a LOT of calibers and loadings in between that would work just fine. Why the need to exact so much control? Or is it just that, a need to control? Sorta makes me wonder. And, no, Jack. I don't trust the DNR's judgement on very much at all. All it takes is observation to see them screw up on a fairly regular basis.

 

[IronHorseman]

Pretty interesting stuff. I too have been peeved about not being able to use my 30-30 on white tail when I can keep 'em in the 9 ring at 125 yds pretty easily, and know darn good and well it has enough knockdown power. Whilst perusing the levergun offerings at GB, I did begin wondering why so many other calibers that would be super on whitetail are not allowed in our little state, and why larger handgun cartridges like the 10 are illegal. I'm not dense enough to get that one doesn't want to take the Lorcin .380 to the treestand, or let city boys out into God's country with 30-06s. But, that said, there are a LOT of calibers and loadings in between that would work just fine. Why the need to exact so much control? Or is it just that, a need to control? Sorta makes me wonder. And, no, Jack. I don't trust the DNR's judgement on very much at all. All it takes is observation to see them screw up on a fairly regular basis.

I don`t like the idea of a cowboy novice hunter spraying lead from a Glock 20. My nephew and I waited until after deerr season to start hunting coyotes because we didn`t want to be in the field while his idiot cousins were deer hunting. I`m 110% pro gun but some people lack the common sense to hunt.

Glock Talk - View Single Post - 10mm Hunting in Indiana!!!

 

[HK45Mark23]

What does 10mm have to do with cowboys?

I can't believe some of the things you have said here.

There are plenty of states that allow the 10mm.

Ted Nugent has shown that the 10mm is more than capable and the Glock 20 is accurate enough to do the job. It is extremely flat shooting.

No other Glock can beat it for accuracy and power at distance. The extended barrels are readily available from Glock and other aftermarket manufacturers.

The 10mm shot out of a 6” barrel is well into the .41 Magnum range and is maxing the .357 Magnum capabilities.

 

[Whosyer]

Just for arguments sake, and sorry if this a sort of thread jack, I say let the DNR make the cartridge rules on public land. And here comes the can o worms, let the landowner set the cartridge restrictions on privately owned land. The DNR can handle the regs for those hunting in the overpopulated public venues. And the person that owns the private land, that knows the terrain, knows the hunters, knows the neighbors and the neighbors hunters, can dictate whatever round they feel is safe.(as long as it's a round capable of humanely killing a deer) And there ya go, problem solved. All you have to do is convince the landowner where you hunt, that your Bren 10 ain't a gonna shoot yer neighbors cows or kids, and your in like flint.

 

[HK45Mark23]

I`m 110% pro gun but some people lack the common sense to hunt.

That has nothing to do with the 10mm, for those whom you refer to should not hunt in the first place.

I feel I am loosing respect for your opinion, which I have previously held in high regard.

I find your arguments to be shallow and ill informed.

 

[HK45Mark23]

Just for arguments sake, and sorry if this a sort of thread jack, I say let the DNR make the cartridge rules on public land. And here comes the can o worms, let the landowner set the cartridge restrictions on privately owned land. The DNR can handle the regs for those hunting in the overpopulated public venues. And the person that owns the private land, that knows the terrain, knows the hunters, knows the neighbors and the neighbors hunters, can dictate whatever round they feel is safe.(as long as it's a round capable of humanely killing a deer) And there ya go, problem solved. All you have to do is convince the landowner where you hunt, that your Bren 10 ain't a gonna shoot yer neighbors cows or kids, and your in like flint.

Sounds good on the surface, but a lot of people hunt land that is only a 10 acre spread owned by one family, and the surrounding land is farm land owned by other people.
The laws have to do with preventing your high power rifle cartridge from going a mile and killing someone out of eye sight as well as preventing mouse cartridges from being used and animals being needlessly wounded.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Just for arguments sake, and sorry if this a sort of thread jack, I say let the DNR make the cartridge rules on public land. And here comes the can o worms, let the landowner set the cartridge restrictions on privately owned land. The DNR can handle the regs for those hunting in the overpopulated public venues. And the person that owns the private land, that knows the terrain, knows the hunters, knows the neighbors and the neighbors hunters, can dictate whatever round they feel is safe.(as long as it's a round capable of humanely killing a deer) And there ya go, problem solved. All you have to do is convince the landowner where you hunt, that your Bren 10 ain't a gonna shoot yer neighbors cows or kids, and your in like flint.

Here's a better idea since the deer herd is a public resource to be managed for the maximum benefit of the people who buy a license to hunt them, let the people who've bought a license for 2 consecutive years vote on the rules for hunting them. Let the people who buy guns for punching holes in paper vote on the rules for paper punching sports.

Here's another one I could go with, let the people who live in Marion county vote on the rules for hunting in Marion county and all the rest of the people in the rest of the counties vote on the rules and license fees for hunting in the county where they live. Any one who don't like the rules can hunt in their own county where they, their own neighbors and their own families live.

 

[samot]

I personally think Indianas regs on what arms you can & cant hunt Deer with are freaken retarded. You cant hunt deer with a 30-30 ?? you cant hunt with a Rem 700 "deer rifle" .223 .308 ??? Unless its a thompson encor or contender or whatever it is ?? It just doesnt make sence to me ..

 

[Cornbread]

Maybe the rules should be changed so that you have to qualify with the weapon you want to use. This way you would be able to show you have the skill and power to make a safe clean kill. After all this is what everyone wants. This would be noted on you licensee (just like what a trucker has).This way you could use what you wanted (with-in common sense) and the state would get more money.(that is what they want) Because I don't think you can separate the power from skill when talking about this. Just my opinion

 

[IronHorseman]

The more I study on this the more I don`t like the idea. There are few 10mm firearms suited for hunting except the Thompson Contender anan Enfield based carbine that are is not imported to the U.S. and a few Ruger single asctions . The Glock 20 is porrly suited for hunting I don`t care what the Nuge says.

Why get a cartridge legalized when there are no suitable hunting weapons?
And let`s not forget that the FBI scrapped the 10mm because it was so hard to get agents qualified with it. I don`t want to be in the woods hunting with an inner city cowboy packing a Glock 20 spraying lead.
For the record I carry my Glock 22 concealed when hunting but I don`t hunt with it. Before the laws was changed to allow CCW while hunting I asked a game warden what I needed to do to carry it while hunting and he pointed out that I could hunt with it ( squirrels), I have been hunting coyotes with an AR-15 but I only put 5 rounds in a 30 round mag. If after 5 shats there are not dead coyote(s) on the ground I need to get my butt over to the gun club and sharpen my shooting skills.
How many people that own Glock 20`s, Bren Ten`s, Colt Delta Elites etc are willing to spend enough time hehind the trigger to get good enough to hunt with one? Remember the FBI had trouble geeting agents qualified.
The 10mm Firearms Page

 

[IronHorseman]

Here's a better idea since the deer herd is a public resource to be managed for the maximum benefit of the people who buy a license to hunt them, let the people who've bought a license for 2 consecutive years vote on the rules for hunting them. Let the people who buy guns for punching holes in paper vote on the rules for paper punching sports.

Here's another one I could go with, let the people who live in Marion county vote on the rules for hunting in Marion county and all the rest of the people in the rest of the counties vote on the rules and license fees for hunting in the county where they live. Any one who don't like the rules can hunt in their own county where they, their own neighbors and their own families live.

Jack, I know we disagreed on the pistol caliber rifles for deer but I still believe there is a place for responsible hunters to use them. I believe there is a place for rifles in rifle calibers too, after all we are already using them on coyotes. The more I study on this 10mm thing the more I don`t like it.

 

[IronHorseman]

This statment may be true for you and some others. However there are just to many that people that have 10mm that would see this as a way to just unload them on a live target. Even if they have never hunted anythig before. Just remember that most don't have the control or skill you have. I would not want to be in the same woods with some owners I have seen. JMP

And that`s what we don`t need, inner city cowboys that own a 10 going into the woods thinking that they are hunters.

 

[IronHorseman]

Just for arguments sake, and sorry if this a sort of thread jack, I say let the DNR make the cartridge rules on public land. And here comes the can o worms, let the landowner set the cartridge restrictions on privately owned land. The DNR can handle the regs for those hunting in the overpopulated public venues. And the person that owns the private land, that knows the terrain, knows the hunters, knows the neighbors and the neighbors hunters, can dictate whatever round they feel is safe.(as long as it's a round capable of humanely killing a deer) And there ya go, problem solved. All you have to do is convince the landowner where you hunt, that your Bren 10 ain't a gonna shoot yer neighbors cows or kids, and your in like flint.

You have raised an intersting point and I had the same idea. Land owners already have the right to regulate their land. I have friend who hunts on private land and the land owner only allows bow hunting.
DNR is saddled with both the responsibilty of managing resources and the the safe use of public land.

 

[IronHorseman]

That has nothing to do with the 10mm, for those whom you refer to should not hunt in the first place.

I feel I am loosing respect for your opinion, which I have previously held in high regard.

I find your arguments to be shallow and ill informed.

Well let me tell you about some of the people I`ve met that either have no common sense or are simply delusional about guns and their own shooting ability. There was the guy that tried to convince me that he could shoot sub moa groups with a POS Kel-Tec PLR16. And then then there was the young national gaurdsman who who complained the the only 17HMR shells he could find were only 2250fps, he wanted the 5000fps rounds so he could shoot 500 yards with a 17HMR! He also believed that an AR-15 was a very capable 1000yd weapon! Or the guy I ran into in a Ruger forum last week that insisted his 10/22 with a 3-9 scope would shoot 1/4 inch groups at 100 meters and he went on to specify that that was with the scope set on 6x.
I really should keep notes on all this stuff so I can write book about it someday.
Since we agree that some people should not hunt why should we allow them to hunt with a 10mm.

 

[IronHorseman]

Maybe the rules should be changed so that you have to qualify with the weapon you want to use. This way you would be able to show you have the skill and power to make a safe clean kill. After all this is what everyone wants. This would be noted on you licensee (just like what a trucker has).This way you could use what you wanted (with-in common sense) and the state would get more money.(that is what they want) Because I don't think you can separate the power from skill when talking about this. Just my opinion

I have mixed feelings about that. While it is not technically an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms it opens the door for similar restrictions on right to carry and ownership.
We gave saying in the motorcycle rights game, " Educate don`t legislate".
We as gun owners and hunters need to start policing ourselves and making sure our fellow enthusiast are properly trained in firearms safety and marksmanship. If we police our own Big Brother won`t have to do it. That being said invite a friend to your gun club.

 

[IronHorseman]

Sounds good on the surface, but a lot of people hunt land that is only a 10 acre spread owned by one family, and the surrounding land is farm land owned by other people.
The laws have to do with preventing your high power rifle cartridge from going a mile and killing someone out of eye sight as well as preventing mouse cartridges from being used and animals being needlessly wounded.

No problem at all, my nephew and I hunt family ground and have permission to hunt neighboring proprty. All hunters should get permission to go on neighboring land to retrieve game.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Maybe the rules should be changed so that you have to qualify with the weapon you want to use. This way you would be able to show you have the skill and power to make a safe clean kill. After all this is what everyone wants. This would be noted on you licensee (just like what a trucker has).This way you could use what you wanted (with-in common sense) and the state would get more money.(that is what they want) Because I don't think you can separate the power from skill when talking about this. Just my opinion

...and qualify you have a clue how to hunt, know the regs, have sense enough to find the truck once it's 50 feet out of sight. Qualify you can tell a male deer from a female and a deer from a cow or a person, oh yeah, qualify you know what to do with it beyond pulling the trigger.

I got lot's more you need to be qualified to do other than stepping out on a target range under a roof and poking a few holes in a piece of paper and heading out to granpa's farm. There's a lot more to hunting than jumping off the 4 wheeler, climbing up the tree grandma points at and shooting a deer out from under a 50 gallon feeder.

A lot of gun shop salesmen show upt like they hunt when they have a pile of guns stocked they know are not legal to hunt deer with. That's where a lot of the stupidity of the current regulations come from. Paper pokers and salesmen sticking their nose in hunting to try squeezing the last dime out of it. Trying to turn it in to "golf", not because they hunt or ever cared a crap about hunting. Mention buying/selliing or wishing for something for hunting other that JUST HUNTING OR JUST FREAKING LEARNING TO HUNT and out the run from the wood work like Billy Mays with a sales pitch.

 

[IronHorseman]

I got lot's more you need to be qualified to do other than stepping out on a target range under a roof and poking a few holes in a piece of paper and heading out to granpa's farm. There's a lot more to hunting than jumping off the 4 wheeler, climbing up the tree grandma points at and shooting a deer out from under a 50 gallon feeder.

Very true.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Jack, I know we disagreed on the pistol caliber rifles for deer but I still believe there is a place for responsible hunters to use them. I believe there is a place for rifles in rifle calibers too, after all we are already using them on coyotes. The more I study on this 10mm thing the more I don`t like it.

What I don't like is paper pokers and salesmen having any influence what so ever on hunting. They are totally unrelated sports.

I know, I do both, I am equally inept at both. Competency in one doesn't mean diddly in the other. It's about like saying walking to the fridge for a brew during comercial should qualify a person to plot out the future for the Appalachian trail.