Let us influence 10MM hunting in Indiana

[shibumiseeker]

The AR is a very versatile weapon than can be configured for many applications unlike my Glock.

Field Sidearm Choice - 6" Ruger GP100, 6" S&W 686, or my Glock G20L - AR15.COM

Steve's longslide G20 (he's got a pic of it in his avatar) was the model for the G20 longslide. He had the first one built.

If you think Glocks can't have a number of configurations then you are sadly mistaken. I have two different barrels for mine including a 6" barrel. I can get ones threaded, ported, you name it.

You dismissed the fact that the G20 is not the only gun in 10mm, saying there were less than two hands worth of guns. I find that interesting. Just how many currently produced factory guns shoot the 41 magnum? Or the .35 Remington?


Just why does it really matter, other than the elitism that another poster mentioned? I already said I can hit the killing zone of a deer at 50-75 yards reliably. The round has the energy to do so. People in other STATES use it with good results. The justification that it'll somehow make it easier for bozos to hunt is bogus, bozos are going to be bozos no matter what round they use.

 

[hornadylnl]

You know, these guys shouldn't be hunting with a G20.
YouTube - glock long range pistol shooting (352 yards)
YouTube - Glock 20

But hunting with a Desert Eagle is ok.
YouTube - My Wife -vs- the Desert Eagle .50

One of these 3 is legal in Indiana. Does it make any sense other than some Fudd buttwad wants to tell us what to do?

 

[IronHorseman]

You know, these guys shouldn't be hunting with a G20.
YouTube - glock long range pistol shooting (352 yards)
YouTube - Glock 20

But hunting with a Desert Eagle is ok.
YouTube - My Wife -vs- the Desert Eagle .50

One of these 3 is legal in Indiana. Does it make any sense other than some Fudd buttwad wants to tell us what to do?

Come on at least compare apple to apple that scrawny chick doesn`t have chance against that Desert Eagle.

 

[greg]

I'd like to know a little bit more about some one who is asking me to join forces with them for their own benefit. I checked your post record and don't see a single post about hunting or what you hunt or have hunted and you've been on the forum for several months. All I saw in your post record concerning hunting was a few pleas to people to help you get 10MM approved for hunting and a post saying the gun you own is a Glock 10MM.

So how did your hunting season go this year? What have you killed and what all do you hunt? What are you hunting with now? Have you got any good tips for hunters since you must be a pretty competent hunter if you know better than the DNR and need to step in to rewrite the hunting regulations.

Is there any particular reason the 10mm should be singled out and specificly named as a specific cartridge legal for hunting? Other than just because you happen to own one of course.

Yes ...lets hear it

This is a big part of the problem with the public in general and pandering law makers interfering with the DNR and people who actually hunt. They don't know if a 10MM is bigger or smaller than 30 cal or even what is legal now but by golly they know what the rules should be.

Amen

What I don't like is paper pokers and salesmen having any influence what so ever on hunting. They are totally unrelated sports.

I know, I do both, I am equally inept at both. Competency in one doesn't mean diddly in the other. It's about like saying walking to the fridge for a brew during comercial should qualify a person to plot out the future for the Appalachian trail.

Exactly....all very good points

 

[greg]

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I'm just stating that the DNR has no interest in specifically listing cartridges that fall outside of the realm of parameters set forth for PCR's. The only way to get additional cartridges legalized for deer would be to lower the minimum case length or raise the maximum case length -- both of which would also allow undesireable cartridges into the mix. Wildcats that meet the current requirements are legal.

That could change if it gets out of hand....Or let some high ranking official family member get shot from one while hunting!!!!

 

[hornadylnl]

Come on at least compare apple to apple that scrawny chick doesn`t have chance against that Desert Eagle.

And that is completely my point. That scrawny chick is completely legal to hunt with the Desert Eagle while the 2 guys aren't allowed to hunt with the Glock 20 although they have clearly demonstrated the ability to do so. It perfectly illustrates the stupidity of some bureaucrat arbitrarily deciding what will kill a deer and what won't.

Those of us who are arguing for the use of 10mm have brought evidence to the debate. IE, the ballistics fall in the range of current legal calibers, video demonstrating long range accuracy, etc. You've brought nothing more than your emotions.

 

[IronHorseman]

And that is completely my point. That scrawny chick is completely legal to hunt with the Desert Eagle while the 2 guys aren't allowed to hunt with the Glock 20 although they have clearly demonstrated the ability to do so. It perfectly illustrates the stupidity of some bureaucrat arbitrarily deciding what will kill a deer and what won't.

Those of us who are arguing for the use of 10mm have brought evidence to the debate. IE, the ballistics fall in the range of current legal calibers, video demonstrating long range accuracy, etc. You've brought nothing more than your emotions.

On the contary I have brought common sense to the discussion. African big game hunters have a saying " Bring as much gun as you can handle". Before my friend Harry passed away he could one arm his 50AE Desert Eagle. Give the Golck 20 to the scrawny chick or just your average deer hunter that never practices and see what happens. Every deer hunter isn`t Jerry Miculek.

 

[hornadylnl]

On the contary I have brought common sense to the discussion. African big game hunters have a saying " Bring as much gun as you can handle". Before my friend Harry passed away he could one arm his 50AE Desert Eagle. Give the Golck 20 to the scrawny chick or just your average deer hunter that never practices and see what happens. Every deer hunter isn`t Jerry Miculek.

So you are then advocating the ban of large bore handguns to deer hunt, right? UNDER INDIANA LAW, THAT SCRAWNY CHICK IS ALLOWED TO USE A DESERT EAGLE TO HUNT DEER WITH! Would it not then make more sense for a guy who is a good shot with a Glock 20 to be out deer hunting with it than that scrawny chick with the Desert Eagle? Those in this thread who are advocating the use of 10mm for deer are arguing for COMMON SENSE hunting regulations. But because of your preconceived notions of urban cowboys blasting away with Glock 20's, you are against it.

 

[IronHorseman]

A little challenge

Ok I have a little challengeyou guys that want to hunt with your 10mm`s. Take youur favorite 10mm to the range this weekend and hang a target at 100yds(no cheating), then post your targets here. And then we can resume this discussion.

 

[yenningcomity]

One argument for the Desert Eagle is that it carries 7 rounds in 50 AE where the Glock 20 carries 16. Should the mall ninjas decide to take their toys hunting and pull the trigger till it goes click I would rather they have the Desert Eagle.

This is a moot point as far as 10mm hunting rounds goes as their are revolvers for 10mm, but if you want to argue for a specific gun it is easier to argue against it.

 

[hornadylnl]

Ok I have a little challengeyou guys that want to hunt with your 10mm`s. Take youur favorite 10mm to the range this weekend and hang a target at 100yds(no cheating), then post your targets here. And then we can resume this discussion.

Ok, I want to see anyone take out there Desert Eagle and hit a 100 yard target. A Desert Eagle is legal and a 10 isn't. If I follow your logic to it's full conclusion, you are advocating banning several guns that are currently legal for hunting deer.

I personally won't hunt with a handgun for the sheer fact that I see very little deer when I do hunt, let alone getting one within 20-30 yards for me to take a shot I'm comfortable with. Probably another reason I don't bow hunt. I wonder how many bow hunters can hit a target at 100 yards with their bows.

I'm merely trying to make sense of your logic. You obviously have a bias towards 10mm. I don't even own one. The point I'm trying to make is that there is no "COMMON SENSE" in our current hunting regs. Allowing 10 mm makes more sense than our current regs.

 

[hornadylnl]

One argument for the Desert Eagle is that it carries 7 rounds in 50 AE where the Glock 20 carries 16. Should the mall ninjas decide to take their toys hunting and pull the trigger till it goes click I would rather they have the Desert Eagle.

This is a moot point as far as 10mm hunting rounds goes as their are revolvers for 10mm, but if you want to argue for a specific gun it is easier to argue against it.

Sounds like elitism to me. If you want to use the mall ninja stereotype, what about the guy who goes to Don's Guns and buys the gold plated Desert Eagle 50? I just find it hypocritical to hear "gun owners" put down fellow gun owners in the same fashion as anti gunners do.

Are you guys suggesting that all hunters should have to pass target qualification tests with the gun they choose to carry? I suppose a guy with a 12 gauge never gets buck fever and makes a bad shot and loses a deer. Who are you to tell a guy that can hit a steel plate at 80 yards with a Glock 20 that he can't hunt with it? As for magazine capacity, why should a guy shooting on a range be trusted with a 16 round mag any more than a guy who happens to be hunting with the same gun?

 

[yenningcomity]

Personally I do not care for either the Desert Eagle or the Glock 20 as hunting weapons. I believe I read on one of the threads that the reason behind allowing pistol cartridges in rifles as opposed to full blown rifle rounds is to limit distance. The rational being that this would cut down on hunters shooting bystanders. In the instance of two hunters one with a .50AE and one with 10mm in a Glock 20 the one with less rounds would potentially hurt less people.

This does not apply to those that hunt responsibly, but no one qualifies you for your weapon. Not everyone out hunting does so reasonably and there is the potential that in the heat of the moment they will be a bonehead.

Personally, if I was going to handgun hunt I would probably use a .375 supermag. I would say 357 or 41, but the brass isn't as easy to come by.

 

[hornadylnl]

I just looked through our DNR regs for hunting with handguns. The barrel length must be at least 4" so I could hunt with a 4" 357 mag. The Glock 20 barrel is 4.6". Typically semi autos reduce muzzle flip by a great deal allowing more accuracy. I wonder how many hunters using 357 can hit a target at 100 yards. Why should 10mm be held to a higher standard than other legal firearms?


10mm Auto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Performance






The 10 mm Auto falls between the .357 Magnum and the .41 Magnum in muzzle energy for popular loadings. With certain JHP bullets, these energy levels may produce an effect known as hydrostatic shock in living targets.[12][13][14][15][16][17] [18] The existence of this phenomenon has been questioned, however.[19][20][21] Some commercial loadings are as follows: .357 Mag: 584 ft·lbf (792 J) for 125 gr (8.1 g) @ 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s); 10 mm: 750 ft·lbf (1,020 J) for 200 gr (13 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s);[22] .41 Mag: 788 ft·lbf (1,068 J) for 210 gr (14 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s). The 10 mm load given is about maximum for SAAMI established pressure levels, while the .357 and especially the .41 Magnums are commonly handloaded to significantly higher levels than these samples. Recoil energy of full-power loads is also comparable, being 9.4, 12.4, and 15.6 ft·lbf (21.2 J) respectively for these loads (computed using the same powder and weight of gun). The 10 mm Auto may be used for deer or other medium game at short range.
Most 10 mm handguns are not designed for long range shooting often desired in hunting; a few revolvers (using half-moon clips to adapt the cartridge) are made in this chambering, and offer another choice for hunters. Much currently manufactured 10 mm ammunition is closer in performance to the "FBI load" than the full power 10 mm; these still offer sufficient power for defense applications, yet their recoil is more comparable to the .45 ACP in similar guns. A few smaller companies offer full-power ammunition for this chambering. Due to the less common availability and higher than average cost of commercial ammunition, it is more a handloader's cartridge than most other popular auto pistol rounds. A well-stocked shooting retailer should carry 10mm Auto ammunition, though it is less likely to be stocked than more popular defensive calibers. Major ammunition companies do produce ammunition, and it is readily available through special order.
The 10 mm Auto cartridge operates at very high pressure in comparison to other defensive pistol cartridges, such as the .38 Special or the .45 ACP. Its maximum average pressure of 37,500 psi is closely comparable to that of the .357 Magnum or the .44 Magnum,[23] allowing it to develop higher velocities. The original loading was a 200 grain (13 g) bullet at 1200 ft/s (366 m/s), yielding 642 ft•lbf (871 J) of kinetic energy at the muzzle[24]. The 10 mm is able to match or exceed the .357 Magnum and retain more kinetic energy at 100 yards than the .45 ACP has at the muzzle[24].

 

[hornadylnl]

This does not apply to those that hunt responsibly, but no one qualifies you for your weapon. Not everyone out hunting does so reasonably and there is the potential that in the heat of the moment they will be a bonehead.

And the above is the same argument that anti gunners make about any gun we want to own. When it comes to our rights, I will always err on the side of freedom, not restriction. The reason why I say 10mm should be allowed in the books is because it currently fits within the parameters of other calibers used with the exception of case length.

I guess the Desert Eagle hunter's 7 rounds won't mean much when they lodge that first bullet in their skull due to loss of control. Do you know that there are no capacity limits on Hunting with PCR AR's? You can fit 10 rounds of 458 SOCOM in a 30 round mag. Are you saying they should be limited as well? I've been hunting with more than one person using a shotgun that unloaded their gun on one deer and never get a hit. I guess we should all have single shots to prevent madmen from unloading them and killing everyone for miles around.

 

[6birds]

Ok I have a little challengeyou guys that want to hunt with your 10mm`s. Take youur favorite 10mm to the range this weekend and hang a target at 100yds(no cheating), then post your targets here. And then we can resume this discussion.

Wilbur Wright, Sat., about 2? Watch out, it may be a trick, or maybe it's not.

 

[IronHorseman]

Wilbur Wright, Sat., about 2? Watch out, it may be a trick, or maybe it's not.

Saturday at 2:00 I hope to be coyote hunting with my nephew.

 

[hornadylnl]

So, IHM, should we not be allowed to bow hunt? I don't know of any 100 yard bow shooters out there.

 

[IronHorseman]

I just looked through our DNR regs for hunting with handguns. The barrel length must be at least 4" so I could hunt with a 4" 357 mag. The Glock 20 barrel is 4.6". Typically semi autos reduce muzzle flip by a great deal allowing more accuracy. I wonder how many hunters using 357 can hit a target at 100 yards. Why should 10mm be held to a higher standard than other legal firearms?


10mm Auto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Performance

Now let`s look at that argument for a minute. A 357 wheelgun has a barrel that is mounted rigidly to the frame with sitghts rigidly attached. Unlike a Glock that when locked up the barrel and slide can be wobbled from side to side and the sights are attached to the slide. Plus the wheel gun has the option of being fired in single action mode giving it even more of an accuracy advantage. I will concede that a Colt Delta Elite has a potential accuracy advantage over the Glock but the wheelgun still makes a better hunting gun.
Even with a scope the wheel gun has an advavtage as it offers a more stable mounting plarform.

 

[6birds]

Saturday at 2:00 I hope to be coyote hunting with my nephew.

Maybe he can explain it to you.

Good luck with the 'yotes