Why haven't you taken a training class?

[mcjon77]

Wish I could find someone nearby that cheap! I wouldn't mind doing a class or two with Coach, but 3hrs both ways is wy to long a drive for me, and it seems not many in NWI advertise their trainging offered, or if they do it's expensive (like the instructor Rhino linked me to). It's probably worth the extra money, but that doesn't mean anything if there is no extra money on hand. Hopefully, given the time, I will be able to work something out and figure out how to get some training! The good folks here on ingo seem ready to help, ATM I have neither the funds nor the time, but I will this summer hopefully!

Since you are in NWI, check out the options available across the border in Illinois. I am from Chicago, so I look at schools in Illinois, Indiana and southern Wisconsin. I was willing to drive 3 hours for shotgun training because those courses are pretty rare. If you are willing to drive an hour or 2 into Illinois some more options may open up for you.

Keep in mind that even a single day worth of defensive firearms training is VERY worthwhile. The 6 hour shotgun course took me from a person who had NEVER fired a shotgun before and didn't have the confidence to use it in a defensive situation, to a person who can run a shotgun with ease and now uses it as a primary home defense tool.

 

[Bfish]

NO! Don't go to Illinois! You can't even carry your gun there

 

[mcjon77]

NO! Don't go to Illinois! You can't even carry your gun there

If you are willing to go to Illinois for ANY other reason, you might as well go there for training. In fact, it would probably be easier. Just put your gun in a case before the state line, drive directly to the training center (no stops), take the training, then drive directly back to Indiana (again, with no stops).

Another option is to check southern Michigan for training options.

 

[Coach]

NO! Don't go to Illinois! You can't even carry your gun there

Remember good gun safety while you climb the Iron Curtain have someone else hand you your gun when you are on the other side.

 

[riverman67]

I voted other.
I'm really not too busy,but my work schedule requires me to work every other weekend.
It seems that local classes that I am interested in seem to be scheduled on weekends that I have to work.
I do attend training when my schedule allows and I need to get to more.
Maybe this poll wasn't for me

 

[cedartop]

I disagree with some of the people here that are a little gung ho for me concerning numerous topics that are discussed so I don't trust everybody's training opinions either. I could start up a training program and get people who don't know any better to come they may think it is great training but it may be horrible and now they have wasted money and received bad training. I don't want to be that person. What makes a trainer reputable would be one who is employed or has been employed to train officers and fed agents. Ones who are written about in national publications (still may be no good but less likely), also places such as the sig academy and such.

So since you disagree with them, their knowledge or experience isn't valid?

I don't want to pick on the police like many do about their training, but you do realize that because someone is an officer in no way means they are automatically good with guns? Police have a LOT of things they have to know. Shooting is just a small part of it. This means that for most it is a very low priority. The majority of officers will never be involved in a shooting. I was in a class recently with two police officers in it, one was the best shooter in the class, the other the worst. The one who was the worst was his agencies firearms instructor! You really think because someone is an LE trainer it make them reputable? There are some great trainers who are or have been officers, such as Tom Givens, but it is far from a guarantee.

 

[Jackson]

I voted other.
I'm really not too busy,but my work schedule requires me to work every other weekend.
It seems that local classes that I am interested in seem to be scheduled on weekends that I have to work.
I do attend training when my schedule allows and I need to get to more.
Maybe this poll wasn't for me

The poll was intended for people who have never taken any training. I'm happy for whatever discussion we get, though.

 

[bwframe]

How do I know they have attended the schools/ trainings? For me to take word of mouth or internet I would have to know the people better to take there word. I know most people wouldn't lie about there training. I still would like to see some type of training certifications of those teaching the classes showing where they received their training. What kind of training do the trainers at ILEA or a department such as IMPD have? Could one go through the same train the trainer program as them and have a cert to show for it?

Have you done much reading in this "Tactics and Training" forum here on INGO?

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

It's a mixture of time and money for me so I voted "too busy" because if I had the time I could probably make the money happen.

I'm hoping that this fall my wife and I both will be able to attend a course together. I've yet to decide where though...

 

[rhino]

I'm not seeing any genuine surprises here, but I continue to be enlightened.

For what it's worth, there really is no functional system for certifying instructors in this business. The closest thing is NRA certification, but that only tells you that the person is certified for a very limited albeit well developed curriculum.

The bottom line is that people who really do want to participate in firearms (or other) training will find a way to make it happen. The reasons stated why some don't or more importantly won't seek training, are interesting academically, but I don't think they will change the big picture much.

 

[One Shot One Kill]

I'm not seeing any genuine surprises here, but I continue to be enlightened.

For what it's worth, there really is no functional system for certifying instructors in this business. The closest thing is NRA certification, but that only tells you that the person is certified for a very limited albeit well developed curriculum.

The bottom line is that people who really do want to participate in firearms (or other) training will find a way to make it happen. The reasons stated why some don't or more importantly won't seek training, are interesting academically, but I don't think they will change the big picture much.

Maybe for most, but not for me! I had the good fortune to have an INGO member reach out and message me informing me he is within both a reasonable distance as well as price that works well for me. Due to extreme shortage of money, I'm not able to accept this offer immediately, but sometime this summer I will expect to have a more reasonable budget and plan to take him up on his offer during this future time.
to the OP for making this thread and others who volunteered to help in some way. I can't wait until I have the funds to try out a class or two

 

[obijohn]

8 people have indicated they cannot afford a trainIng. I think I've only seen one post in the thread.

Maybe I'll start an INGO training scholarship. If someone has never taken a training class and really wants it but can't afford it, and can show legitimate need, and are willing to make the necessary efforts...

I'm in on this, Jackson. I've offered before, but little or no response. This is me as an individual, not any connections I may or may not have. One on one time with a good coach (pun intended) is a very affordable option. I know of several others that would be a good choice also. J, you know this list of likely suspects in this regard.

 

[Jackson]

I'm not seeing any genuine surprises here, but I continue to be enlightened.

For what it's worth, there really is no functional system for certifying instructors in this business. The closest thing is NRA certification, but that only tells you that the person is certified for a very limited albeit well developed curriculum.

The bottom line is that people who really do want to participate in firearms (or other) training will find a way to make it happen. The reasons stated why some don't or more importantly won't seek training, are interesting academically, but I don't think they will change the big picture much.

My thread helped enlighten the rhino?

 

[Jackson]

I'm in on this, Jackson. I've offered before, but little or no response. This is me as an individual, not any connections I may or may not have. One on one time with a good coach (pun intended) is a very affordable option. I know of several others that would be a good choice also. J, you know this list of likely suspects in this regard.

I may start another thread on this topic. I can see it working two ways. Either I put up some money to send one or two people to a class that most closely fits their needs and location, or I try to bring some people together for a free class and donate targets, time, and try to make it worthwhile for the instructor. I'll give it some thought and I may reach out to some people. Most of those people know who they are.

 

[dwh79]

I did not mean training from just any old officer I mean people who have been to train the trainer programs who have been taught to teach. My point about random opinion post is that I don't always trust some of the comments people make so why would I trust their opinion on training. It is good info but opinion alone would not be sufficient for me to take one class or another. There are bad trainers in all certified trainers. Hey some doctor just got a passing grade do you ask to see their grades or do you trust their certs? It is a combo of items to chose training options in my opinion. 1. Do they have certifications and what are they? 2. Are they professional or have a professional looking business? 3. What kind of reviews have they received?

this is just my opinion obviously many have a different opinion. If trainers are reading these comments and want to use this for research on how to get people in the door to make money (most are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart) then these are my opinions on this subject matter.

 

[dwh79]

Yes some but no not a lot. (Sorry should have quoted. Referring to question posed to me about reading the training sub forum on INGO)

 

[dwh79]

I'm not seeing any genuine surprises here, but I continue to be enlightened.

For what it's worth, there really is no functional system for certifying instructors in this business. The closest thing is NRA certification, but that only tells you that the person is certified for a very limited albeit well developed curriculum.

The bottom line is that people who really do want to participate in firearms (or other) training will find a way to make it happen. The reasons stated why some don't or more importantly won't seek training, are interesting academically, but I don't think they will change the big picture much.

I understand their is not much certification and that is a shame as I believe that it would be beneficial for all if their was. One thing I would like to know more about is where do LEO trainers get their training (I doubt they just choose their best shooter at IMPD and say hey can you teach these guys and gals to stay alive and not hit bystanders nor would ILEA just say hey anybody want to do this training for most new officers in the state no pre-requisite required.) It appears from looking online that their are some programs they can attend. I am not sure if they are open to the public. Also they can attend programs held by the FBI for training as well.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I understand their is not much certification and that is a shame as I believe that it would be beneficial for all if their was. One thing I would like to know more about is where do LEO trainers get their training (I doubt they just choose their best shooter at IMPD and say hey can you teach these guys and gals to stay alive and not hit bystanders nor would ILEA just say hey anybody want to do this training for most new officers in the state no pre-requisite required.) It appears from looking online that their are some programs they can attend. I am not sure if they are open to the public. Also they can attend programs held by the FBI for training as well.

IMPD posts position openings and anyone of the appropriate rank can put in a transfer request. This is the normal procedure for most positions. I don't know what the selection process the Range staff uses to select from those who express an interest. I don't know what specific training they get, but I do know they become ILEA certified.

I will say your concerns are valid, but perhaps not as big a deal as you'd think. The truth is, a LE, MIL, or competition shooter background doesn't mean that person is a good instructor. The ability to shoot well isn't any guarantee. There are many people who are excellent performers and horrid teachers. Conversely, there are people who could never beat the people they teach. Look at gymnastics coaches. Boxing coaches. Any physical sport, there are people who cannot out perform the student making that student better. Just having someone who knows the fundamentals watch you and help you become more aware of how you are moving has value. The military calls in big game hunters to teach tracking techniques to some .mil folks. Do big game hunters know anything about counter-terrorism ops? Who certifies them? In what? Yet they are subject matter experts in that one area the .mil wants and they vet and utilize them for that specific skill. (I'll get back to this in a minute.)

I was also very hesitant to go outside of the LE circle for training. One, I had access to good instructors. Two, I was concerned I'd have trouble finding where my skill level fit in vs where the class was geared for. Three, I was concerned it wouldn't be relevant. As I studied training more (the science behind it, how to do it, etc.) I felt some of that fall away. Remember the big game hunter, remembering the boxing coach, it becomes easy to find people to train under. Do they have a students who report objective gains in a skill I wish to acquire? Do they have a background in skills or tactics I feel I would benefit from? Do they have a reputation for pumping out winners? Then train with that person. If cost is an issue, only go with well vetted and experienced trainers who meet that criteria (has a skill you wish to learn, has successfully imparted it to others in the past.) As money loosens up, you can have the option of being the tester and exploring a bit more.

 

[bwframe]

Yes some but no not a lot. (Sorry should have quoted. Referring to question posed to me about reading the training sub forum on INGO)

Just saying that there is a wealth of information right here under this forum section. Many many articles, videos, links, etc. on top of advice, commentary and discussion from trainers and trainees. Essentially all the information one might need to start making the informed decision you are seeking.

 

[rhino]

I'm not seeing any genuine surprises here, but I continue to be enlightened.

For what it's worth, there really is no functional system for certifying instructors in this business. The closest thing is NRA certification, but that only tells you that the person is certified for a very limited albeit well developed curriculum.

The bottom line is that people who really do want to participate in firearms (or other) training will find a way to make it happen. The reasons stated why some don't or more importantly won't seek training, are interesting academically, but I don't think they will change the big picture much.

Maybe for most, but not for me! I had the good fortune to have an INGO member reach out and message me informing me he is within both a reasonable distance as well as price that works well for me. Due to extreme shortage of money, I'm not able to accept this offer immediately, but sometime this summer I will expect to have a more reasonable budget and plan to take him up on his offer during this future time.

Well, see? You want to do it and you're finding a way to make it happen. What I said applies to you!

My thread helped enlighten the rhino?

I have learned quite a few things from you, young man. I anticipate that pattern will not cease any time soon.

I understand their is not much certification and that is a shame as I believe that it would be beneficial for all if their was. One thing I would like to know more about is where do LEO trainers get their training (I doubt they just choose their best shooter at IMPD and say hey can you teach these guys and gals to stay alive and not hit bystanders nor would ILEA just say hey anybody want to do this training for most new officers in the state no pre-requisite required.) It appears from looking online that their are some programs they can attend. I am not sure if they are open to the public. Also they can attend programs held by the FBI for training as well.

Are you a law enforcement professional? If not, why are you fixated on LEOs as the source for training? I ask because it's been present in most if not all of the messages you post here and it makes me curious. For the record, I have no commercial interest in you or your training, so please do not think I have some personal agenda here.

For what it's worth (and this may be an unpopular set of statements), there are quite a few LEOs who are fantastic trainers, but in general this area of study is driven primarily by civilian private citizens, not LEO or military. Much of the body of techniques trickles into the LEO/military world, not from it. There are exceptions, particularly in tactics that are primarily or exclusively the realm of cops and soldiers, but in terms of gun handling, shooting, etc. civilian private citizens are doing the heavy lifting in the research and development department.